Heelychat, the forum for heelys, the shoes with wheels - View topic

Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 1391 Location: UK

This may be very difficult to accomplish, but I don't like to quit rightaway and say something's "impossible" without having a real good think about it: lately I've been trying to think of a way to make a shoe that's still a "Heelys" type shoe (where you have some toe left to step/stop on) but is easier to use on much bigger ramps without forcing your toe down, so that some of the tricks requiring even bigger air could be done, and yet it could still be worn as an everyday shoe.

I'm not much good at vert yet myself, but I hear that the difficulty with huge drop-ins is that it makes the pumping harder and forces your toes down more, so it's harder to keep the roll going at such great speeds.

So I was thinking, what if there was a largish-wheeled Heely, but one which also had a second wheel further forward to help keep the toe from planting. Sort of a cross between Torches and Rebels. Of course, getting two biggish wheels in the sole (one at the back and one a little further forward) would be doable, but the difficulty then comes in fitting in the grind-plate, as WELL as keeping the plantable toe. The grind-plate would probably have to be between the front and back wheels to allow the wheels to give extra stability. But of course to keep some toe available for normal walking (so that's it's still a "Heely" and not just a 2-wheel inline skate) the back wheel would have to be further back than usual. Now, this would not be tough, and it would save vert skaters from having to sand-down the heels. You would lose the rear soft-brake, but since you can still do a rear-foot drag to brake that wouldn't be too much of a loss. It would mean getting used to the slightly different plate positioning when grinding, but other than that, I think the design might be workable, with some more tweaking of course?

I drew a little preliminary sketch to help you picture the layout but obviously I'm no artist so don't judge it by it's looks Smile

See, my feeling is that since the human foot naturally has an arch in the middle, this is the perfect place for the second wheel, as wheel bays need to take up more depth than a grindplate does if using a flatish plate like a rail-plate which would give better speed to pro-grinders. And this would mean the back wheel would plug more into the rear of the heel than the front, but of course that gives the advantage of never accidentally catching the rear brake.

Well, I'm just bouncing ideas around, like I say it needs more work, but I think this design might allow the heelers who are good enough to get more speed and air on the bigger pipes without forcing the toe down as much and therefore allow heelers to do the same "big air" tricks that the top inline skaters do, and yet still walk normally in them like all Heelys.

Another idea is, since bigger wheelbays can take big wheels and smaller ones provided the right axles are supplied, when not taking it vert, these sort of heelys could come with a smaller wheel-set for more normal walking, which could also save your best vert bearings from getting mucked up during everyday wear, but of course for those who get used to walking with the big wheels in, this wouldn't be necessary if you prefer to use the same wheels all the time - they could just be sold as optional extras. Smile

The other option is that you normally wear it with only the back wheel for normal heeling, making walking easy since you have plenty of toe-area to walk on, and only pop in the second front set of wheels when taking it on the big half-pipe.

Good concept with a brand new learning curve... Let me rate this with a compliment sandwich where I give a compliment, I add some areas for improvement, and I finish with a compliment (5 points to anyone who can guess the reference)...

I like the idea of having a shoe designed STRICTLY for vert (the other shoes can be used with vert but with the limitations are perfect for street). I have been thinking of modifying a pair of shoes just for that reason and I am totally open for a team of people to engineer a pair just for that reason.

The problems I see with that shoe are the wheel, the grind plate, and the other wheel, so let’s start with the back wheel:

- You have planned to move the back wheel to the base of the shoe (almost like a Mack). As you stated you will have NO back break making it nearly impossible for a graceful stop (just plant n' pray lol). Having the wheel in the back would cause for people to have their toes lifted up farther to remain balanced which could cause (because of nothing in the back to stop you) someone to fall flat on their ass. I don't know about you, but falling backwards on a half pipe is 400% scarier then falling forward. So this would mean that a heeler who has never worn a pair of shoes with the wheel pushed in the WAY back would have to relearn dropping in and probably have to relearn heeling in general. This could cause some frusteration and a need to never wear the shoe again.

- The grind plate has been moved back (depending on the shoe size) a full few inches back leaving it under the heel. I have yet to see any type of grind shoe with a plate under the heel (doesn't mean they don't exist, I just haven't seen them). This would mean that all grinds would have to be performed on the heel of the foot where balance becomes a crucial part if trying to avoid not eating whatever material your half pipe is made out of. Again a new way of grinding would have to be perfected and because of the risk and the constant pain, it will probably be rejected after a few tries.

- This part of the shoe I actually had an idea about (we can discuss that later). The issue I have with this is the same idea I was kind of sketchy with the Heel-plate; people aren't accustomed to it. To eliminate any toe touch the wheel would have to be roughly the same size (a little smaller is possible, but it would have to be tested). If the wheel is too small then it will be like the skater is wearing a high heel and is almost forced to put their toe down. Then with a vert smoothing out, the toe may be easier to come in contact with the surface (or during the rise, but either way it will give new meanings to "Toe Jam").

- All around comments and suggestions:
º What happens if people have flat feet? Are they not allowed to trick?
º Would the grind plate have to be smaller to accommodate the wheel setup? If so then wouldn't that make a new grind technique even more difficult to grasp?
º Instead of making a Wheel - Grind plate - Wheel model, why not slap some Mega/Fats and an Express Plate on the Rebels for stability and lack of a learning curve

So all in all, it needs some work but I am happy to know I am not the only one pondering different ways to break new bones. Whether or not Heelys are available in the next few years I am glad to see some people are still thinking of ways to better their own personal satisfaction with the shoe

********************

Now, seeing how this is a thread about modifying vert skating I thought it may be appropriate for me to add my two pence on the topic (had to do it on a UK thread sorry lol). Before I go onto my topic, let me see a show of hands from my fellow heelers in regards to the following question:

How many of you fine Heelers prefer Fats over Megas when verting?

I know myself personally had some SERIOUS issues when it came to working vert in my Rails (I think I was given the name "Gimpy"). It was a hard habit to break that actually was making quite easy by the advancements of the "Mega Wheel" (insert kind of cool music). Now, for the people who rose their hand, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about (yes I am discrediting your opinion. You wanna fight about it? lol). Fats have been proven and mostly disapproved by 4 out of 5 heelers (I am that one heeler who prefers fats over megas when street skating, but megas over fats when verting). So in turn, I answer your question with yet another question:

Why modify the SHOE when you can modify the WHEEL?

Since the Heelys shoe has came around there have been countless modifications to the wheel and the shoe. But when taking a closer look, the shoes have pretty much stayed the same (yeah they add a grind plate here and move a wheel back there, but mostly they mess around with the layout of the shoe and rarely the performance as shown by looking at the Torch vs Evo and the Rails vs the Grind This!) and the real modifications exist with the wheel itself. Let’s take a quick walk through the history of the wheel shall we:

- Normal Wheel: small wheel that came in an assortment of sizes and had a hard compound. Nice to roll around with but had some stability issues
- Fat Wheels: medium sized wheel with a little wider axle and a deeper diameter this wheel came in a hard compound and a softer compound. Also, the stability issues from the normal wheel were corrected.
- Big Deuce Wheels: large wheels with a split down the middle. Made of a soft compound you can stick to whatever surface you were on, but made nice little streaks on your mom's hardwood floors. Stability issues were all but resolved yet we have to look at the speed issue.
- Mega Wheels: A large wheel with no gap. Rocks getting caught between the sole saver and the wheel still causing people to break their wrists but all known issues with stability and speed have been resolved. Unfortunately the compound doesn't stick to the base causing what heelers call "Air Bubbles"
- Mega Vertz: AHA! A solution to all of our problems. We have a hard compound so NO MORE AIR BUBBLES! We have large wheel so NO MORE STABILITY PROBLEMS! We have smooth surface so NO MORE SPEED PROBLEMS! We have the axles so secure within this wheel NO MORE MODIFICATIONS CAN BE DONE WITHOUT THE USE OF A SLEDGEHAMMER!

OK, so the last comment we could have done without but you get my point. Through the evolution of the wheel, the bigger it is the more stability we get. So instead of modifying the shoe, why not modify the wheel. Let’s take a Mega Vertz wheel and make it Bigger. Make it wider. Make it longer. Make it... well I guess we can only make it wider and longer... But either way, why not take a shoe, keep the bay where it is at right now but extend it as far as it possibly can go (don't eliminate the soft brake completely, but get it out of the way). This way the axle (instead of moving like in the above stated method) can stay in the same place but we increase surface area. Keep the same compound of the mega wheel for additional speed and throw some decent bearings inside of them (shit, if you're gonna charge me up the ass for wheels give me a reason to buy them other then the fact your megas suck so bad).

"Wow Mav, that idea's so cool, but what about the wheel being so large it will slow the skater down due to the weight of the skater being dispersed over the size of the shoe?"

Haha, good question little Jimmy. With the new wheel design, we can also incorporate the use of the Free Spinz modified wheel. If we place a small gap in between we can now use 2 EXTRA bearings to help coast the wheel along to provide less resistance meaning we can now go faster. Faster speeds and more stability we can now push to go to a larger half pipe and make it to get bigger air (or more air off the smaller half pipes).

"Well what about the natural urge of wanting to step your toe down?"

That's an excellent question. My answer to you is don't suck so bad. HAHAHA (Is he joking???) With a wider wheel (meaning the diameter is larger then a standard mega) you'll be provided with an extra boost. When rolling around, your toes are lifted up off the ground to remain in motion. A larger wheel means your toes will be higher off the ground saving you those few extra millimeters typically used when your feet touch the ground.

"It would be near impossible to fit a larger wheel base in the current mega models. The sole would have to be redesigned to be thicker therefore making the shoe look less aesthetically pleasing to look at."

Have you ever seen Toxics? Next question

"A common complaint about the Free Spinz wheel is that one of the wheels will work better then the other wheel. Sometimes the other side stops completely rendering the wheel completely useless."

This wheel and shoe shall be distributed out in limited quantities. Only experienced heelers will be given this shoe at its promotion and it is not recommended by myself nor the company that any non-experienced heeler attempt to move beyond their current capabilities until they are ready.

Please, no further questions -steps down from soap box-

********************

Listen people, Heelys are a fad for everyone. Look at Merlyn, he was our hero and even he's putting his skates away. Emma stopped heeling after a while and so have probably 50% of the people I have known since I've joined this site. This still does not give us the excuse to try and progress the sport any further. I know you're little fingers are probably typing away saying "Wuteevr Mav u dont no wut ur talkin about" but there is at least one person who is reading this saying "Why even bother" and this message is for you.

Why did you come to this site? Why does the Tricks and Tips section only have 2324 posts? That means there were 2324 questions and answers exchanged over the course of this community in regards to the advancement of your heeling abilities.

I am going to be honest. I started skating for me and I blew dog logs. I could barely hit a half pipe and my grinds lasted a whole 2 seconds. I had a camera to record with and no friends to help me. I was completely alone. The only thing that kept me going was the endurance of wanting to do something that no one else has done. And like you guys I was ridiculed and made fun of because of my preference in skating. I just put it all away and that was the fire that made me want to skate better.

After a while I stumbled onto this place by someone who commented on one of my videos. Then I was introduced into a Utopia of knowledge and wealth. This place was so ACTIVE with video posts and skating pics. There was a HUGE HeelyChat gathering the year before and people were STILL talking about it.

But then people started fading away. The sport was reaching a climax and the demos were winding down. The EMMs topped posting and the regional teams were getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

Then HSL did something that I though was amazing. They made a competition for Heelers of ALL skill categories to skate. You can submit a video and show off your skills and only the select few would be there to win prizes.

It was a massive success... in a very big dream. The contest only had 16 entrants and there were 15 prizes. I am going to be honest; I hung up my shoes for a while and refused to skate. Being a large footed heeler I saw an opportunity to win a pair of Torches that I didn't have to pay triple digits for. But then I lost (yes, I lost because 2nd place out of all those videos constitutes as losing). I was placed in the category of kids jumping and landing on the edge of the sidewalk. I was livid after seeing the results and I disowned the sport and all the mother fuckers running it. I mean I know my vid wasn't the BEST but it was better then some of the fuckers who won first place. At least mine followed all the rules that some people who won wouldn't be able to say...

Anyways, as you can see from above I was pretty pissed off. Like I said I hung up my shoes and I gave up. I rolled around at work; I still did footies at the mall. My girlfriend even bought a pair and I'm slowly teaching her, and that’s when it hit me. I was caught up in the money of shoes and the success of something that only a few thousand people have witnessed. I completely lost the whole reason for skating which was for me and it took taking the training of a completely new person to realize that.

Sorry for completely going off tangent and thread jacking you Merrie, but I promise this will all tie in. I completely agree with Merrie England's idea to try and push the sport to continue progressing. I was disappointed to hear of Merlyn's retirement. Hearing that he was having issues with corporate sponsors was utter bull shit to me because I gave up for the same reasons and I realized I was just stopping myself from doing something I enjoyed. But then seeing he wanted to master something else I can completely understand.

So the moral of this whole thing is if you are willing to propose an idea of a new shoe design or critique the ones already in place, then please, move forward and do so, but I am sick and tired of hearing people reject other people's ideas to move this sport forward.

"They say it was impossible to Heel on vert. I say it was impossible to Heel any where else"

**********EDIT**********

So I counted everything and it came to 5 pages, 2501 words (before I made corrections). I think after editting everything it is still roughly around that... lol. I think this may be my longest post to date

Joined: 03 Jan 2008 Posts: 223 Location: Warshington, USA

Didn't read Mav's reply, which I'm sure is excellent and will read soon.

Just wanted to say... why?

At that point, you've taken away the primary differentiating thing about Heelys which is that there's only ONE wheel on each shoe (I ignore the ones with two as an abomination along side gamers). If you put two on each shoe, you might as well just put on some inlines. Seriously. To me, the skill involved with Heeling vert is not just the act of going up and down a half pipe and pulling tricks, but ALSO that you only have one wheel on each foot! Putting another on just makes it less impressive to me and reduces the skills required to those much more similar to inlining. You would be able to keep your feet side by side, for cryin' out loud! Razz

Edit after reading Mav's post: :clap: :clap: :clap:

if youve dropped in on vert with rebels you'd know the toe gets in the way. you have to hit the ramp exactly or you'll trip over yourself, hell its hard to do on launch ramps because of the transition. the quarterpipe at the drog left a rip in my pants and the halfpipe, wood burn. with rebels the front wheeel is pretty far bback so you can still sorta walk, putting that wheel up front with the grindlate seperating makes em spinnerz Razz

Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 1391 Location: UK

I'll answer one of the last points first, since I realise that a better "vert" heely would be something of a holy grail to many people, and it isn't my intention to mislead anyone:

reads the dissertations

You guys do know that having only one wheel lets you freely alter the angle of your foot, right? Are you aware of the importance of being able to do this in vert?

Team Heelys - Northeast Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 1803

Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 1391 Location: UK

Joined: 15 Jun 2008 Posts: 1391 Location: UK

Good post Mav. I can't argue with that Smile

One final point tho:

Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1548 Location: Ohio

.....you're not alone Mav.......it was more than just a fad for me. I was seriously into vert heeling, and I'm willing to stick with it. I can't speak for anyone else, but I hope the pro team is committed enough to bring heeling back even if the corporate team fails.

omg

...to many long posts...can't...go...on...reading any...farther!

Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Posts: 30 Location: PA

this is an epic bump, sorry.

the nano has introduced something- a concept i'm very interested in. using the heel bracket as a mount rather than just a slot for a wheel- imagine a bracket that would slot in (and maybe strap over the toe area) that would basically turn heelys into portable inlines? it's possible and they'd actually be stable if another (smaller) bracket was added to the toe.

picture this.

aggressive skaters have used a wheel combination of Normal-Roce-Roce-Normal wheels for a long time if they planned on grinding, why not on our heels?

the recess of the toe-socket would only have to be about a cm in, which could be accomplished without hurting the comfort factor of most heelys shoes. it also would not have to be a complete heel bracket- it could be a small horizontal snap-in, about 2 inches in length to straighten the chassis piece and keep it from veering or wobbling.

MSpaint FTW

took about ~9000 hours.

Joined: 30 Sep 2008 Posts: 220 Location: idaho

[quote="subversed"]this is an epic bump, sorry.

the nano has introduced something- a concept i'm very interested in. using the heel bracket as a mount rather than just a slot for a wheel- imagine a bracket that would slot in (and maybe strap over the toe area) that would basically turn heelys into portable inlines? it's possible and they'd actually be stable if another (smaller) bracket was added to the toe.

[img]http://i28.tinypic.com/f1xe2r.jpg[/img]

picture this.

aggressive skaters have used a wheel combination of Normal-Roce-Roce-Normal wheels for a long time if they planned on grinding, why not on our heels?

the recess of the toe-socket would only have to be about a cm in, which could be accomplished without hurting the comfort factor of most heelys shoes. it also would not have to be a complete heel bracket- it could be a small horizontal snap-in, about 2 inches in length to straighten the chassis piece and keep it from veering or wobbling.

[img]http://i25.tinypic.com/1qpxq8.jpg[/img]

MSpaint FTW

took about ~9000 hours.[/quote]

i have never seen such long posts in ANY other forum, so yes epic bump. Deserves archives due to the intense typing involved..."best of"

I do believe the new guy just showed proof of concept. however it takes larger wheels, and after adding wheels or making them larger when do they become roller skates and less like heelys?