Heelychat, the forum for heelys, the shoes with wheels - View topic - Re: How's destroying your own brand feel, Heelys?

Guest

eh, i just had some nice talks this weekend w/ the team / "corporate" people...and now that i've gotten another side to this story, i kinda can understand where everything is going. i can kinda see light at the end of this "tunnel" we're in. aside from all that...there are issues at hand that are being addressed and assessed. options for the future are in the works. i mean, i don't really have the "authority" to say what is at hand...but i can say that the future can look good w/ effort from both sides. both the skaters and the company.

and after looking at it all...disney really isn't a bad place to hold demo's. they have all the resources we need. staff, the half pipe and storage for it, facilities for us to chill in, the crowds we need. stuff like that. and more! it's going to take time for this to evolve and become truly "mainstream". i mean, look how long it took skateboarding to finally become "cool". look how long it took before the "ollie" was actually possible. the team is really working hard and perfecting this sport while creating a way for it to be accessible to everyone. without a good foundation, it wont go anywhere. so even tho it may seem as though we're moving slowly...the team is really moving fast if you look where we started.

heelys as a company, i can't really say where it's going to be in the next 1-3 years...though i can say for the team and heely's becoming an extreme sport , in the next 1-3 years (if everyone works "together" on it) will be mainstream. it'll happen w/ the work of ALL sides. the skaters, the company, the venues, partners...etc etc. those things are all in the works and just need time. it wont happen tomorrow and probably not even this year. just allow the team / company to do their thing and be hopeful for them all man. it's hard and shifting the company from a "fad" to and "extreme sport" is kinda difficult if you think about it.

this shoe company started as a fad as we talked about before and now that we've evolved it...it's going to take time to get out of peoples heads that these things can actually do more than just "annoying parents" and "let kids be lazy"! in my honest opinion, if these shoes get kids off their lazy butts and out the door skating around, i'm all for it. skating around in a mall or grocery store while hitting people or however they annoy people is not the way to create a good image obviously. we're going to have to get it out of their heads and show them the potential of these shoes and this sport. I mean heck, look at canada for instance. they switched from standard to metric. the whole country was in an uproar and took YEARS to finally get into peoples heads that it wont change and get used to it. now they use it like it's nothing, it's common all over, and it worked. you slowly faze out the old thought of an idea and filter in a new one. that is what is happening here. we are working on fazing out the old mentality of these shoes and hopefully kids who haven't thrown their shoes away will finally take them back out and use them for what they can be.

getting kids to either buy a pair or even get the confidence of learning vert is the hardest part of this whole deal. having the young kids like big & lil mac, hailey, aj, etc are ways we will show children the confidence that this can work. having people like me and merlyn riding around will show older teens / young adults ( and maybe even a few older one: i.e. AMN) that this is possible. in the end, we will have a huge array of people who can truly take on this sport and know that anything is possible and that vert is another aspect to these shoes. skateboarding can be either a mode of transportation, a fun hobby at the skate park, or for a few, a job. we need to work together and help each other out in order to truly make this possible. i see the future and it's very bright...but bashing the company while having the stockholders do what you say, wont get anywhere. we gotta work from in the inside in order for this to work.

we have to come up w/ confident and feasible plans to show them for anything to move forward. we have to show the company why things need to be done and how to go about getting it all done. we have to take some action ourselves but in a more constructive way. corporate america works so much differently than the normal world. but that's not the point here...

anywayz...i think i lost my train of thought when i was in the shoutbox...so gimme a sec...

oh ya, i just wanna say be on the lookout for bigger and better things to come out (obviously shoes w/o wheels) but other things that either we haven't thought of or don't talk about...it's going to happen guys...just let Heely's take it's course. i'm all for the preservation of this sport and i don't want to see anything bad happen to it. i really don't think it's going to go under any time soon and just for that, i'm gonna keep skating, keep supporting the cause, and simply just gonna have fun!!!

alright...i'm off my soap box...lemme know what you think...

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 469 Location: Ol' Virginny

I like gravy on my mashed potatoes.

Keeping all the events at Disney is gonna shelter the evolving sport into a 'disney stunt show' and kids aren't gonna care once the vacation is over. The love needs to be spread around.

Other than that... I'm with you. I'm sure that there is more going on than what we see in the public eye. I can't wait to see what the next level is.

I smell the vague putrescence of coaching, here. I'm not sure how much of that you were being told to write. If it was any.. that's pretty damn sad.

Before I begin, who, not on this board or on the team, do you know that can do tricks of any kind? "I have a couple of friends" won't really cut it, here. After the huge sales of 06 and 07, wouldn't you expect some more contenders, or people on Youtube? That huge array of people you mentioned has already been sold to.

Millions of Heelers, but the ones we DO find who can do tricks, we can invite to Heelychat individually...

So what we have is not a graduated continuum of skill but the pro team way out in the way-outs (how many standard deviations, now? Eight? Enough to skew the whole thing...), the rest of the teams and Heelychat a bit farther back on the curve, and EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD waaaaaaaaaaaaay back in la-la land. Seriously, this is one HOSED Gaussian distribution. Are Heelys just that hard? Not really. It's just that they're sold as shoes/toys instead of sporting equipment, and no one ever thinks of having to practice with the former. This fact was addressed multiple times, but of course it didn't pass through enough thick skulls for Heelys to modify its campaigns accordingly.

Seriously, why the hell has a Heeler on a halfpipe never been shown on national television? (I don't watch TV, but I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong here. If I am, correct me)

And please don't give me any crap about waiting. I'm done waiting. This is the beginning of summer, the time of year when kids will actually get to use their Pro Models if they come out about now. Guys, I get a whole lot of information I'm not supposed to have. They're done. They've been done for some time. I bet DISNEY will buy the necessary 600 pairs at this point (have you tried, Bonks? Yes, I know you're reading this. Go for it.), and stick the profits on its "Income - Other" sheet.

Working internally only works if you are actually considered part of the company and your input is received by people with the mental faculities to understand such things. No. You are isolated, and upper management is composed wholly of idiots. You are entirely cut off, floating adrift in the void, retaining your status by simple inertia, an insignificant miscellaneous expense on the books of whoever happens to be running the books after the last CFO split, held in place only by force of will and probably a lot of begging. When you ask important questions, you are misdirected and fed gallons of bullshit. In other words, you are simply being blown off. What they cannot blow off is an army of stockholders asking exactly who is responsible for this situation and where their money went when they bought in 2006. (TBQH, though, I'm not sure if there are any buy-and-hold longs LEFT, or if they all split around the $6.00 mark.)

Seriously, other than empty promises, what does the sport aspect get? No new shoes capable of supporting it, no Megaverts, no different sorts of grindplates, no more in-store demos, no more local events of the kind able to get people into it. Just one tiny little national pro team. (Bonks, when the pro team was invented, I bet you didn't think the other teams would DISINTEGRATE, eh?) And the continued existence of it is more a testament to Merlyn's (and possibly Brooks') tenacity, not anyone else's long-term plan.

And meanwhile the new CEO says he wants to make Heelys a health and fitness company, not understanding that the ability to do that is RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM with the PRODUCTS HE ALREADY HAS. I know that mentally retarded people can't help it and should be given equal opportunity, but is it really necessary to put them in charge?

I know. You sure as hell don't want to lose your position enjoying yourself at Disney and making money doing it, and you're not allowed to agree with me in public, especially since I get very nasty very fast when I want, and I'm openly advocating that the people actually hosting your demos buy out the company and proceed to bust out the pink slip cannon. (Again, Disney: DO IT!! DO IT!!)

I gotta go find some more stockholders- Yahoo can't be the only place...

yeah, i have to agree with jay, the way this weekend's disney demo went, i honestly think people (yes adults and kids) are going to take heelys more serious, aj and i got asked a few times where and how much torches are, and i heard alot of adults and teenagers (16/17-ish) saying woah i didnt know you could do that on heelys, and alot of pre-teen aged kids saying they wanted to start learning tricks on their heelys, i asked one kid why he stopped and he said it was because it got boring to just ride forwards. They were all there for competitions, dont think they were on vacation (unless they headed to the parks after) and alot of them are probably going to get home start unpacking their suitcases find their heelys ball or hat think of the demo, and probably go out and try some stuff. heck who knows what can happen. heelys werent a big thing in 02/03/04 and 05 came and bam they started coming up all the over the place, maybe this time its the same thing, things just slow down a bit and then in a few years, bam kids are picking up teh heelys again, or kids that are really young now, are going to pick up heelys when theyre older.

Guest

well, to start off...i'm not making money going to these events. i go there on my own free will, w/ my expensive gas money, and go because i love it. only reason i never went before was because i was busy and now i have time.

as far as typing all of that or being coached, no one told me to say anything. i wrote it as soon as i got back because i felt like something needed to be said on this whole pessimistic view over this whole situation. the reason for the disney thing is because they are testing out bigger venues because that is the track they are looking at going. and no, it's not just gonna be at disney, it will eventually move all over. there is a demo scheduled for cali sometime this summer. they used disney as a stepping stone / foundation for future events. once we move onto other BIG places, we'll use this as a foundation for what we need, how to execute it, how many people to bring, what to perform. things of that nature. slice, you gotta start small...you can't run before knowing how to walk. kinda like w/ me...i can drop in but w/o the proper technique on pumping, it's kinda pointless.

and another thing, espn is going to readvertise all of the wide world of sports. they are going to put tv's everywhere and might even include heelys in all their sports. so when the kids are doing their demos, there will be film crews there putting it up on the tvs for everyone to watch and go see. who knows, maybe when we get enough tricks perfected, we'll move on to bigger things. another reason why disney likes us so much is because we provide variety to their sports complex. not the normal soccer and baseball...it's something new and exciting. it brings along a new breed of sport that kids can get in to. every time we go back there, the service and demos get better and better. we can now plan an agenda from the disney demos and make it official to show what exactly what we need, how much, when, times, skaters...etc. there is a bigger picture than just doing "little" demos there and not going anywhere else. they will.

millions of heelers might be true. but what percent of them are actually going out to a skate park? i agree, 99.9% of them can't do much more than a few ground tricks (giving them the benefit of the doubt here). but what we need to do is show them what is possible. i also agree w/ you that dave is bringing up these kids faster than people are learning. but dude, think about it. if no one but dave is around to teach other people, how in the world would anyone learn in the first place? okay, it's taking longer now ONLY because we are the ones developing the sport and the tricks. once we have them all perfected, we can respectfully teach others. what's the point in teaching a young kid how to do something if we aren't teaching them the correct way of doing it? it's called exponential growth. teach 8. 8 of them teach 8 more. those 8 go out...so on and so forth. eventually we'll reach enough to sustain itself.

we'll eventually get to the point where kids can learn 10x faster than what we learned it at. dave is instilling in these kids the foundation for the future of this sport. if he didn't care enough about it, we would've quit months, if not years, ago. he knows these kids love doing what they do, so he pushes them to learn the correct technique and hit it every time until it's natural. just because these kids are way advanced doesn't mean there aren't other kids out there we haven't discovered or who aren't doing what we're doing. we have so much ground to cover it's not even funny. the shoes are out there, it's only a matter of finding the feet that fill them and release their true potential.

and no, there isn't a heeler on a halfpipe on tv...we aren't ready for that yet...we've already brought up that issue many times and even the kids know they aren't ready. so that's not something i'm gonna elaborate on.

and slice, i'm not trying to be disrespectful, but waiting is just a part of life. we have to. there are just things we can't control and unfortunately, we have to wait for certain things to come into play. we're gonna have to wait for the mega verts to be sold in public, we're gonna have to wait for that perfect vert flip, we're gonna have to wait for the pro-model (if it comes out). and i know they are done w/ the plate models...nothing new to me. and i'm sorry your foot is bigger than what they usually make. i'm sorry. not really something i can help you with. and no, i really really don't think disney would buy out HSL. i can maybe see them buying shoes...yes. that's just business. we both know that.

as far as working internally...there are people who talk directly to don and other important people in corporate to make a statement / difference. and they are the ones we go through. they are our connection. yes, i'm one voice...but hell, i'm gonna use that one voice. i've brought up things every time i go to a meet. i've brought things up after getting out of the shower just because it came to mind. i'll present ideas and hear feedback whether it's good or bad, feasible for the company and everyone else...i'm not in the mood to elaborate on this issue...=\

different grind plates? we don't need anything besides what we have now, they work. new shoes supporting what? let's get the spark back up again w/ what is out there b4 wasting more money on places who wont sell any. in store demos? can't really put a half pipe in a store. and ground tricks? why sell kids fats? once they learn the ground tricks (which is pretty fast if you actually use the shoes), you'll wanna vert. i don't trust fats on vert...not safe. so put a half pipe in a store? in store demo's still scream out "FAD FAD FAD FAD" or "mommy, look, i want some!!". doesn't really go farther than wearing them in a mall because lil johnny saw them there and it's EASY to ride around there. that's where the annoyance comes into play for everyone else...

the kids never had anywhere else to use the shoes so they kinda just did it where it was easy = grocery store & malls. Now that we're starting to show them and avenue to persue, they might actually get outta the public eye w/ their shoes, move to the skateparks, and emerge a whole new image!!

think about it...people forget what they are or just push it away as a fad come and gone but in reality, the kids are at the skateparks practicing and learning and perfecting. once we go back mainstream, we open up the scene with that image of a high flying, extreme sport that kids can now get into w/o killin themselves. we'll throw megavert on the market. throw out a new shoe. throw out tricks that haven't been seen before. lil things like that. we might even throw it on tv for exposure. WHATEVER.

making it a health and fitness sport...my thought on that...again goes back to the mentality that heelys are just a lazy way of getting around. people still don't know that it really gets kids outside and moving around instead of sitting in front of a comp playing games/myspace...w/e. show them the benefits of it. skateboarding is extreme, but longboarding is health and fitness. surfing is extreme, but how many people do it for leisure? same w/ almost every other sport. he's basing this shoe and company around what is already in existence and doing what is and has been successful. that's all. i mean, i hated it in the beginning but now that i've let it sink in and really thought about it...it's kind of a smart idea. but enough about that.

that was long..too long for me to read but ...

we have so much ground to cover it's not even funny. the shoes are out there, it's only a matter of finding the feet that fill them and release their true potential.

the shoes aren't out there so even if we do find feet to fill them..it doesnt matter

Guest

your saying there aren't 100,00...a million shoes out there in the world?

i'm saying theres a very limited supply of torches

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 469 Location: Ol' Virginny

RLX... you had me up until the in-store demo part.

Flat is the basis for everything. If you can't do basic flat, you'll never be able to ride ramps. As for full on half's in stores... nah, not possible BUT there are portable 1/4s and we had even thought about buying one for personal use as well as dragging to the demos. Add a grindrail or 2 and maybe some music.... BAM! You have yourself something that would excite kids and get them motivated to learn. Ramp riding is only a stepping stone. I've said it quite a few times... the real future is street : using the given terrain to trick from. You won't find a ramp on every streetcorner but you will find curbs, banks, benches, and many other solid objects that could be used for grinding and airs. I think it's a HUGE mistake to kill the in-stores... not only because it leaves people like my groms out to dry, but because people have no idea that even basic tricks can be done on Heelys. You give them a general knowledge that 'hey... this is a real sport' and maybe toss in a DVD made by someone who could capture some real skill and give it an edgy look (not some cheesy corporate BS) and you've just spread the word like a virus. 8 kids that visit that demo will practice those tricks and each will show 8 others. They will each show 8 others and... well, I think you understand that part Wink

.

Guest

ya, i feel ya. basics are the key to everything. a good foundation is what everyone needs. anywayz...i'm done b****ing about it all. sorry for carrying it on this far. let's just see where everything is going in the next few months to a year.

To be honest... I was thinking about something that Slicer mentioned, as with a few other sources on this site and the rest of the interweb, and the one thing that bothers me is this:

If Heelys are banned in schools... Why in the Hell would you sell the models WITH the wheels in the fall and the models WITHOUT the wheels in the summer? Does that seem like they are shooting themselves in the foot?

Team Heelys - Northeast Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 1803

Hmm. Do I dare get dragged into this? Damn, I better since this is getting more and more rantish.

Let's consider:

Condition #1 - We're all passionate about Heelys. But not everything is in our control. That's life.

Condition #2 - There isn't just one problem. There are several problems. Hence, there are probably several things that need to be changed. It is unlikely that a single change or a single product or a single trick will correct several problems.

Condition #3 - Change in any corporation - especially a publicly traded corporation - is slow. Anyone who believes otherwise is in their own little world.

With that said, let's identify some of the bigger problems and see how the Team, the Sport, and the corporate response fit in.

Problem #1:

The public response towards Heelys has been on a decline. Once again, this isn't as simple as it seems. Its not just parents, teachers and mall guards that dislike them. But as you know there are many haters abound. The fundamental problem is image.

Now, I can't speak for corporate (since I don't work there). But I can (and do) speak for the Team.

Being at Disney is a good move. Disney is a wholesome environment. We're not looking to promote Hybrid Skating as some bad boy sport. Extreme, maybe, but not irreverent. Being on vert gets us immediate respect. I can see it in the faces of the participants. They have that wide-eye wonder that we all first had when we saw Heelys for the first time. And personally, I've been asked several times about how much they sell them for (people thinking they can buy them at Disney).

Problem #2:

"Availability for product remains an issue". Again this isn't so simple. We see availability as a problem because we all want Torches and Evos and Pro Models. But in truth, the availability for "Heelys" is NOT a problem. The market has way too many Heelys, and not enough buyers.

When the new CEO said that the overall company sales of Heelys would eventually be reduced to about 30 - 35% what it is now, I was glad. I just hope that its the RIGHT 30 - 35%.

Consider this. If at its boom-time, HSL only produced megawheel/grindplate models. Then the right product would be in the hands of people all over the world TODAY. Price wasn't an issue because people paid for FATS models what they could pay for Torches (at the time). This was an error in strategy which will come back and haunt us for a long time. It was HSL's Achilles heel. (I can see a satirical cartoon)

But - if supply was brought back under check - then maybe we could have MegaVerts and different grindplates - because as a limited commodity, it would have a lot more worth.

Problem #3:

Exposure. Skating hybrid is fun. People will pay for these shoes if they got out of it what we all do. One problem is exposure. Again, the team makes videos and we strive to give excellence in what we do. But I admit, its not enough.

In order to kick-start Heelys, there's going to be need to be a large successful media campaign. I think that what's being done at the grass-roots level is being done.

I do know that HSL is looking to revamp their website to become much more interactive and keep the content fresh. And RXL is right about ESPN's involvement at Disney. So on this front, I'm optimistic. At least HSL recognizes this problem and is actively looking to correct it.

So - its a complicated situation. As "Corporate Merlyn" I watch and contemplate these things. We can't tackle everything at the same time. A good plan is to focus on three things we CAN change and get that right. Push hard and then revisit it in year.

But in truth, I'm "Skater Merlyn" a lot more. What I mean is .. if you love it, just keep doing it with a passion. I love skating hybrid. Riding vert with the wind in your face - damn, I don't even think about any of this stuff when I'm in the air. Enjoy the friendships you make. There are people that get paid to stress over these things. You don't. If you're really lucky. And you're really good. You don't get paid to worry. You get paid .. to skate.

MDHZ

Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1548 Location: Ohio

Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 469 Location: Ol' Virginny

Well as "Big Daddy Deez", I just hope we have something worthy to strap onto the grom's feet in 2 years.

Cool

Guest

well...merlyn said it right and said it well. thanks for your insight. i like that last part.

i'm just gonna leave it at that cuz if i continue...i'm not gonna stop. i just wanna go out there and skate and enjoy the feeling of skating!! if heeling ever "went away"...i would still do it until my shoes are no more. then i would find some underground shoes and keep doing it. i just love it that much. =). i'm happy where it's going...that's all

i'm off to sleep now...lol. i'm pooped